Please put Arcane Archer class in this game

[gillrmn]

Yeah my hurt sank when i saw that Prestige class archetypes were removed in 4e, i really enjoyed them in the first Neverwinter nights game. ...

You know about Paragon Paths in 4e? They cover triple the ground a compared to prestige class with lesser pre-requisites.


For example - Silverstar (any arcane or divine class who worships Selune)

[shadowycan]

'Ehhh, hold on there, you two. :P Lets try not arguing over which version is better. 3.5 and 4e are good in their own ways.
Just saying, in case someone builds the escalator.

[gillrmn]

'Ehhh, hold on there, you two. :P Lets try not arguing over which version is better. 3.5 and 4e are good in their own ways.
Just saying, in case someone builds the escalator.

There is no argument. Just informing something the great artist might have overlooked.

Because almost all the PrE (prestige classes) can be defined as paragon paths.

[shadowycan]

There is no argument. Just informing something the great artist might have overlooked.

Because almost all the PrE (prestige classes) can be defined as paragon paths.

Oh, okay. Sorry. lol
Been around too many people that kept freaking out over 4e. :P
And I agree, you can emulate the Arcane Archer with a prestige class. Think the Euphonic Bow is about as magical an archer as you're gonna get in this game. lol

[gillrmn]

There was my thread on paragon aths which I requested to be locked. Then I got lazy and stopped it continuation .... too much work.

[zaywin]

I too am waiting for the announcement of a ranger/archer class.

[therumancer23]

Given the game being rooted in 4E the odds of there being an actual "Arcane Archer" seem minimal.

To be blunt, as much as I like D&D in general the game has gotten more incompetant and simplified in design for a long time, sacrificing control, especially early on in a character's career, and concepts in favor of trying for a kind of game balance that is impossible to achieve.

To put it into perspective the game kind of "peaked" at a concept/options stage with 2E, the level of potential diversity among even the lowest level characters of each class was staggering when you got into the deeper rules. A samurai or bladesinger representing training and a lifestyle from an early age marking a character as fundementally differant from someone else was a kit you took at level 1, and influanced your development from then out. Of course this lead to a number of game balance issues because of course a basic unkitted character couldn't compete with one with kits and customization, and of course not all kits and options were created equal as you might expect. Not to mention that there were admittedly some game balance issues when a fighter might be able to make 3/1 attacks at first level with the right skills and abillities and drop 3 goblins or whatever in a round, which is not something most pre-made modules accounted for, which meant that module GMs that didn't have the time to create their own adventures occasionally had it rough, at least at the low levels (though at mid and higher levels it tended to be less of an issue, or entirely irrelevent).

3E tried to address these "problems" through Prestige Classes which characters earned. Meaning that beginning characters started out pretty generic, but then as they advanced could become more diverse by picking a prestige class. The results of this were mixed as it totally destroyed certain concepts (ie Samurai are born to nobility and trains to be from an early age, not something a peasant thug generally aspires to be and then achieves by whacking enough Tasloi upside the head). Also, to be honest, while kits in 2E tended to even out in the mid-higher levels, Prestige Classes tended to make an even bigger mess in the long run because like kits they were for obvious reasons not created equal, and being designed right from the get go for mid-high level play they oftentimes wound up carrying bigger abillities in the long term and could make an even bigger mess.

4E largely seems to be trying to mix it up a bit, to be honest I think it gives a bit more latitude at the lower levels and has some developments I think are okay, but it's Paragon Paths are now something it pushes up to the high levels, creating even more questions when it comes to concepts that should have been intristic to a character from the very beginning. Real personalization of your character takes longer than ever, and like previous not all paths are going to remain "equal" as more and more concept paths appear over the years and your going to be in the same position if you ever get to that point, the nature of the leveling involved in many cases ensures that gamers that prefer low-mid level games might not even see a lot of this stuff, and there is little point to it if it's something that's there, but wouldn't regularly be used. It's sort of like taking "Epic Level Campaigns" which was very divisive as a very concept since some GMs and players tend to scorn anyone who plays on that level as a brainless munchkin, and turning it into a core mechanic.

I'm speaking in a general sense here, do don't jump on me about specifics.

The point is that it's the same thing we've been seeing, following a very specific pattern. The only time D&D ever really "grew" was in terms of the 1E to 2E where the options and possible concepts really exploded for a while.

In general if you came up with 2E the removal of kits and development of Prestige Classes as very annoying to you and wrecked a lot of what you probably liked about the game. Some of your favorite character types like Bladesingers and such just weren't possible (or at least not like they were before). With 3E to 4E the same thing happened to 3E fans who are losing a lot of their favorite concepts like the "Arcane Archer" which a lot of people seem to like.

That said in the scope of an MMO the "Paragon Path" idea probably works a lot better than others, especially when your adding more levels than you generally advance through in D&D. Special archery in 4E might not be quite what a 3E fan wants, but at the same time 2E fans went through the same thing when you had very similar kits to the Arcane Archer along with the "Elven Archery" rules which could be quite fun.

If D&D survives to a 5E, whether it's computer games, MMOs, or PnP, grumbling 4E players will be going off about the loss of their favorite Paragon Paths. It's just how things work. Of course by then I imagine you'll have to ascend to divinity (shades of the old D&D: Immortals rules) and customize that way through your choice of spheres of influance or whatever... I mean with their trends it's kind of hard to try and push the serious choices up any further. 6E will probably be where only those who become equivilent to Cthulhu will be able to choose diverse paths of development (Tentecular Grasper path Vs. Insanity Projector for example).

[fergus1138]

I am very much in agreement! I've been playing a sneakmage type in a few different games lately, and I think this would be a welcome addition!

[gillrmn]

....

4e in pnp is much more diverse and makes much more sense in character customization.

Multiclassing in 3e is fake. You do not multiclass, you just take one level of wizard, then level that etc etc.

In 4e, there are two ways to mix a character.
Multiclassing means, you dabble with another class a bit (check my Lore thread in signature to know more)

However, true customization is Hybrid character - where you take two classes simultaneously when you level.

i.e. at lvl 3 multiclassing in 3e is not true as you will be 1 of something ans 2 of something. While in 4e you will be 3 of both - i.e. truly a mix of class.



Regarding character customization, if you go in pnp, 3e's character customization will not even come close to how much you can customize any class in 4e. Where 3e's customization ends, 4e's customization starts to catch pace.

However, the game is admittedly "based" on 4e. So it is not necessary that it implements everything from pnp.

[wifeaggro13]

Thier is a reason why people are abandoning the 4 e ruleset. Its also the reason pathfinder completely blew up and the CEO of wizards of the coast broke of with all the Game writers for DND to make their own game. Goblinworks has all the original DND devolpers from the last 30 years. the onlything WOTC have currently is the lore of FR's setting . I am very excited to try this game but 4 edition has ruined the classic feel of D&D IMHO. When you get to greedy with your IP you end up watering it down to spread it around until its no longer marketable to the audience that actually uses it.