Massivley posts about the latest dev blog

[ruinedmirage]

The mods do have a point. The ultimate question with regards to the marketing of NWO is, at this particular point in development what EXACTLY is the information you are expecting to be released WITHOUT breaking NDA? Can't really ask for screenshots, unless they are already about confirmed announcements (not subject to change). Can't ask for class/skill/gear lists, as they are subject to change. Hell, even beta dates are still subject to change!

So WHY is everything still subject to change? ---> Why is nothing finalized? ---> Is everything still changing? ---> Why is alpha/these changes taking so long? Some might say they're trying to get it as close to "D&D" as they can. Know what I say to that? This is Neverwinter first, and D&D second. Through all editions of pnp, lore continues to expand and go on, adding more and more along the way, while the rules are ALWAYS changing.

What is D&D about then? The rules. The constantly changing/always evolving rules. We've played enough D&D games by now to disregard discrepancies within the editions when we see them in video games. That's because if you want a perfect game, you should get off the computer and grab your friends and dice.

Maybe marketing IS doing all they can within their restrictions. Then the devs are taking too long complicating things to fit the game, when it should be fit the name (aka Neverwinter). If we want "D&D" for a video game, I imagine it'll be along the lines of RPGMaker or something. Maybe it's not the devs fault, but rather having a hard time getting WotC to approve any changes. Couple that with the fact that strings are being pulled by the puppet master in the background (PWE). My final concern is that too many delays sometimes equal cancellation, even when games are this close to done, or even closer (SNES Starfox 2 or The Last Guardian, among others.)

[gillrmn]

...So WHY is everything still subject to change? ---> Why is nothing finalized? ---> Is everything still changing? ---> Why is alpha/these changes taking so long? ...

This is because game is not made by 1 person but many teams So while in the internal testing (unit testing) there may not have been any bug and everything might be working fine - however, when you bring them together for beta testing, there are bound to be bugs - some very resource consuming to solve leading to dropping of features : some of which if revealed, would make the players get attached to.

Or in simple words, because the devs don't want to be lynched by angry mobs for working harder than they could have gotten away with.

[ruinedmirage]

Those questions were meant to be rhetorical in order to show the reason why we're not getting new info quicker from an authoritative source, i.e. due to NDA. Personally, I have the patience of a Tibetan monk and can wait until the theoretical "release" date to play the game, but the consensus in general is "What's taking so **** long to confirm ANYTHING?" Yes, rhetorical. MMO's have more tests that need to be done in general before release as compared to single player games. But perhaps instead of getting everything done at once, they could throw some meat into the cellar for us once in a while. Focus on confirming and releasing small bits of information at a time rather than prolonged silences with rumors of "are they dead yet" floating around.

[iamtruthseeker]

Eeek. I come back from three days of work and playing Magic the Gathering and these are the first posts I get to read

It's been my song and dance since before I started moderating the forums that any released information has to be considered final. The only thing worse than giving out no information in the early stages is giving out information that changes because every single thing a company says is promissory in the eyes of the communities at large.
I hate being cruel and stereotypical but the gaming community will cling on to every single bit of information by developers. In other MMO's that have been out for years you can find players crying foul for game changes years previous.

There are plenty of understanding people within the gaming community which deserve could be given information freely but sadly they are in the minority. The majority by far take every detail to heart and expect nothing more and nothing less than what they were told.


I don't have a problem with their marketing to date because there's not much to market. Most details aren't finalized and ready for public release. That's not to say there haven't been blunders but those blunders were fixed in a decent amount of time such as the Alpha Giveaway.

As for how Alpha is being handled, it's not that far off. It is being butchered only by people who don't read past 'come play the game' other than to scroll to a download link/key/whatever, but to my knowledge that's about the extent of the butchering. There's very, very few instances of actual content leaks. The majority are people posting they have access in public.


In the end, everything here is pretty standard. Players tend to forget the bad experiences on past games; particularly in the Beta Stages. I can't tell you how many times in the last six months I have seen people switch from raving about Cryptic's marketing to crying foul on an almost bi-weekly basis. I won't call anybody out but I have seen it over and over again.
I really do hate being stereotypical but there's this false nostalgia or something in every single game I have played in which no matter what the here and now was the worst they have ever been treated. The developers always cared more in the past, in other games, other developers had such better PR. This is the song and dance by every single game community, always.

Over the years I have considered why this happens and my best guess is that it is very similar to movie/TV Series releases. I remember going 'Oh no Ironman won't be out for two years *grumble*' and now it has been fives, yes five, years since the original Ironman has been released. If I don't think in terms of a 2008 release I'd say it was last year. George Carlin died that same year as well...unbelievable! I just looked that up because I thought he died two years ago.
I think players forget how long everything takes to be announced. They forget that every announcement can take weeks if not months in the earlier stages and expect updates as if the game is an open book. They forget the bad as soon as it's no longer pertinent to their situation...

I am not seeing a single thing happening to Neverwinter that I didn't see on any other game before it's release.

I stand with Ambi on this response.

As for the rest. All I can say is thy have to get the features done right. Can't say I understand the PR methods though.

[muzrub333]

/SNIP
Very accurate detailed information is being released, the NDA isn't only being broken it's being shattered, and that news is the only thing that is keeping many of us here.

Very good point. One of the main reasons I am still following/looking forward to this game is that a F&F tester has been dropping hints for months on Massively. He has so much praise for the game, that I can't wait. His insights into the Marketing is pretty entertaining as well. Let's just say this; if I had to rely on Cryptics Marketing team for info, I would have scratched this game off my list along time ago. So Cryptic can thank the NDA breakers for their free and effective marketing I guess.

[gillrmn]

Very good point. One of the main reasons I am still following/looking forward to this game is that a F&F tester has been dropping hints for months on Massively. ...

well.... he can just be lying about being alpha member...

But hints are not as bad as releasing videos imo, as long as NDA is not broken. hints(text) cannot be taken as a proof to attack the company later as a source of info (this was there why no have this any longer ?)

As far as it is about the game, I have complete faith it would be awesome.

[gillrmn]

...I don't have a problem with their marketing to date because there's not much to market. ...
I am not seeing a single thing happening to Neverwinter that I didn't see on any other game before it's release.

Its all about The Lost Hype Train (cool name fr a foundry mission )

If you check any gaming forums, recently announced games like ESO have much more threads cumulatively as compared to NW - though they have just been announced as compared to NW (gaming and not official forums where just a few fans keep posting back and forth). And NW has been announced for how long? More than 2 years I believe.

It is a marketing failure for sure. however, good thing is, it is not very very bad - and it is improving. Game is good enough to hold its ground, so even if marketing is lacklusture, as long as they don't make too many blunders - the game should hold the ground on its own. That is why marketing is playing very very safe - by not doing anything much at all.